02 The Unknown Strength Podcast – PART 1 Luke Leaman and Zoe Knight

Macgregor McNair Podcast 0 Comments

Brenton:
Welcome back to the Unknown Strength podcast where we aim to provide you with insights into the fight game and the strength and conditioning training that translates to performance in the cage, ring and on the mat. I’m your host Brenton McKiterick and joining me are my co-hosts Macgregor McNair and Steven Phillips. In today’s episode we talk at length with Luke Leaman and Zoe Knight who are the strength and health optimisation gurus behind Muscle nerds.net.

Mac:
Yeah Luke really is one of the foremost authorities on strength, health and hormone optimisation not just for athletes but for general population as well and his partner Zoe Knight is the managing director of the company and she’s also a gold mine of info on all this stuff as well.

Brenton:
That was an immense amount of information to digest, I’ve got a lot of takeaways from this. I was scribbling furiously throughout the podcast so I will need to view it again to polish up on my notes.

Mac:
Epic is all I can say that was just epic, we’re definitely going to have to split that interview into 2 parts - so this episode of the Unknown Strength podcast, episode 2 will be PART 1 of the Luke Leaman and Zoe Knight interview and in an upcoming episode will be PART 2.

Brenton:
Excellent thanks we hope you enjoy the podcast and we just want to say thanks for the intro song to “Fuck the Fitzroy Doom Scene”.

Mac:
Enjoy the interview everyone. Ok thank you so much for joining us the Unknown Strength podcast, we have Brenton, Steve and myself Mac and very special guests with us tonight we have Luke Leaman and Zoe Knight from Muscle Nerds. How you guys going?

Zoe:
Good.
Luke:
Good how you guys doing?

Mac:
Excellent thank you very much.

Luke:
Fantastic.

Mac:
So Luke and Zoe you guys are the head honchos and the partners in crime behind Muscle Nerds Inc. why don’t you start of by how you both met?

Zoe:
That’s a funny story.

Luke:
This is Zoe’s story so I’ll let her tell it.

Zoe:
I actually went to one of Luke’s Bio Signature courses when he was here in Sydney a few years ago. I didn’t like him when I first met him, I’ve told this story so many times.

Mac:
Please please give it to us again.

Zoe:
I thought he was really rude and arrogant and just not nice but we actually didn’t have much to do with each other at all during the course and I’ve been based in Brisbane for the last 8 years and he then travelled down to the Gold Coast to stay with a mutual friend of ours and then he added me on Facebook and asked me on a date and I said no for about 2 weeks. He was persistent as all hell of course - now that I know him is there any other way? But I finally just caved in, long story short our dinner date lasted 4 days. I proceeded to quit both my jobs and sell my car and then I flew to America and whilst I was over there Luke finished up at Poliquin Group so we both found ourselves jobless and we started Muscle nerds so that’s really the “Reader’s Digest” version.
Mac:
The PG version

Zoe:
Yeah but that’s in summary how we met.

Mac:
Fantastic, you guys have both taken Muscle Nerds all around the world over the last couple of years, can you tell us some of the different cities you have presented Muscle Nerds so far?

Luke:
I actually wrote a list out earlier and I was like holy shit we have been all over Australia obviously but we have also been to Dublin and I’ve been to London a few times, Manchester, all over the United States, Canada, Montreal, Toronto, New York, Los Angeles, Essex we have been all over the place.

Zoe:
We went to Dubai, Kuwait, New Zealand, the main places is in Australia and I think that’s really it.

Luke:
We’re going to Singapore and Hong Kong this year and I’m hoping Poland and Amsterdam as well.

Mac:
Terrific! Man, that is a full schedule.

Zoe:
It’s ridiculous, you know what when you start planning this stuff out it makes a year so short, like 12 months is just….

Mac:
Gone.

Zoe:
Yeah and it’s not long enough.

Luke:
It’s pretty full on and hectic.

Mac:
So moving on from that Luke and Zoe, you guys and I have a little bit to do with each other over the years mainly due to Luke’s years as PICP and bio signature instructor and the Poliquin Group. A lot of our listeners don’t have much exposure to strength and health education circles like Poliquin Group for example so for those listeners, why don’t you tell us a little bit of your background, how you got started on your path and a little bit about your journey to where you guys are today?

Luke:
I started lifting weights when I was about 8 years old or so that was back when Arnold Schwarzenegger came out with Conan the barbarian, I saw Arnold and I was like I want to be like that, I have to be like Arnold right? So my parents bought me a little weight set and I just kept collecting weights and lifting weights, then the Texas football season started so we lifted weights all though that. I started competing in power lifting when I was 14 that’s about when I heard of Charles Poliquin as well with the old muscle media magazine and then after that T mag the T nation and so just kept on with it and was fortunate enough later to go get my PICP level 1 and bio signature level 1 and I just kept going. I did my bio sig 1, 2, 3 did a bunch of the special consideration courses and around 2010 I believe I started working for the Poliquin Group doing some assistant teaching and then eventually going on as one of the head instructors.

Zoe:
I just want to also add in here that Luke is a wierdo.

Mac:
Like we didn’t know that already.

Zoe:
Throughout the whole period he has just got his head buried in books and courses and education. I don’t think there’s a day that goes by that he’s not studying or researching or learning, I think that would be one of the biggest statements to how he got to where is today. It’s just his absolute passion and dedication to learning.
Luke:
I’m just an old school meat head man.

Mac:
Zoe everyone knows that behind a great man is a great woman, why don’t you tell us about yourself and your journey?

Zoe:
I was actually going to start off by saying Luke is actually the woman in the relationship! I’m actually nowhere as near as deep into the industry as Luke is or was but I actually only started even exercising myself when I moved to Australia in 2008 and it was a slow progress into this industry. Before I met Luke I was one of those cardio bunnies so I used to do boot camps and the boxing classes and all that sort of stuff that you think you should be doing but I actually went to a boxing class once and the owner of the gym took it and he was phenomenal and I remember going home that Saturday morning thinking I want to be like him, he was so awesome and I got out of that shower from my session that Saturday morning I emailed off some emails to some fitness colleges, and by that Wednesday I was accepted into 1 and then Thursday after that I had already been offered a job as a personal trainer so within 4 days of deciding I wanted to do it and acting on it, my life completely went down a lightly guarded path and I just ended up down in this industry and I’m super inquisitive by nature so it wasn’t enough for me just to know ok this is what we should be doing, I’m like but why and that’s what led me to bio sig and meeting Luke.

Luke:
And here we are.

Mac:
Here we are fantastic, that kind of leads on to my next question which is to do with Muscle Nerds. Can you tell everybody what exactly is Muscle Nerds and what it’s about?

Zoe:
It’s about putting health back into the health and fitness industry.

Luke:
I’ve been online training people and I know that’s a really cliché thing that everybody is on so I’ve been doing it since 2008, been doing that while I was working with Poliquin Group and after working with Poliquin group and being in that environment for over 10 years I realised there’s a huge gap in the industry for general population. It seems like every certification out there that you do after you get your original cert is all about high performance training.

Mac:
High level athletes...

Luke:
Crazy fat loss super compensation camps, hypertrophy stuff everything is geared around high level athletes and what I found is that the coaches that were trying to use that in the general population it just doesn’t work. It works for 30% of the population but it doesn’t work for the other 70 so they were trying to fit a square peg in a round hole so we decided what’s the main difference is that your general population people simply just aren’t athletes, they have a job and they have a mortgage and they have kids, they have a dog and 2 cars and they have stress, they are overworked and under recovered and they eat like shit and you just can’t take them in the gym beast their asses and think that you are going to force them to get lean and force them to grow muscle it just doesn’t work like that so we decided to start telling people look your clients are stressed, this is how you see the stress, this is how you work on the stress and this is how you fit in all of the programming and this is how you do proper nutrition so trying to get rid of all the bullshit that people are doing and get them on the right track from being Joe Smo and Mary Muffintop.

Zoe:
I also said to Luke when he started writing our level 1 course that I don’t want to do anything that doesn’t have an education aspect to it so I think that’s another important concept in this industry, there are so many facts that are thrown around but not many people understand those facts or understand the why so we try and have some sort of education aspect to almost every service or product that we have.

Brenton:
Fantastic, I find that actually refreshing from the research I been doing on the both of you, I guess one of the phrases that you both throw around is “health first performance second” so specifically in the fight game, how do you think some of the coaches are getting this wrong with their fighters?

Luke:
When you look at the fight game and I come from a martial arts background where I started out with the traditional martial arts taekwondo, aikido stuff like that and it eventually went into things like brazilian jiu jitsu and karate and the gyms I was training at in Dallas there was a lot of pro fighters training there and one of the number one things is they’re simply training with far too much volume. These guys will come in and do a 4 mile run in the morning and then they will come in and do 3 or 4 hours sparing and then they will go to the gym and lift weights then do another run and then they will teach some more. It’s like these guys have a 16 hour days where they never get a chance to slow down and rest and actually recover. They focus on too much of the wrong things there’s only a handful of coaches that I know, a handful of real strength conditioning coaches that really understand this stuff like the guys with ISI (Irish Strength Institute) John Connor who is Conor McGregor’s coach, he’s a champ at this stuff and we also love Joel Jameson’s work as far as his conditioning and learning the different types of adaptations that you are looking for other than people doing road work and having then do sprints just for the sake of it.

Brenton:
Another thing you guys talk about is your recovery being proportionate, how hard you can train being proportionate to how much you can recover I find that really interesting.

Zoe:
It’s kind of a no brainer.

Luke:
That’s the thing if you are in a recovery deficit and you’re not getting better you’re getting worse there’s no such thing as homeostasis, the body will try to maintain homeostasis but you’re either moving forward or moving backward so if you are not measuring and assessing things then you can’t manage anything you’re only going to manage what you measure right?

Brenton:
Absolutely

Luke:
So you use things like heart rate variability, waking heart rate, blood pressure, we do a lot of those stress questionnaires and interviewing and things like that to decide and determine is this too much volume for my client, is this too much intensity, are they able to recover? If they are not recovering, there’s no point in doing work just for work sake.

Brenton:
I guess homing in on a more of a health narrative here, something that I have noticed is becoming increasingly a discussion point is that of gut health. When I’m doing my own research it's estimated 90% of the body's serotonin is being produced in the body's digestive tract so it would seem obvious to keeping the gut healthy would be absolute paramount. A lot of recommendations that I have seen for glutamine as a gut cleansing element which is something that Mac put me onto, so in this regard I was just wanting perhaps your thoughts on gut health and what do you consider when you are training athletes?

Luke:
Glutamine is important taking down 10-15 grams that you look at some of the things it does in the gut and as far as feeding the immune system and things. As far as serotonin a lot of people will talk about that 90% of the serotonin and they will correlate it with depression and anxiety so you have to understand that the serotonin in your gut is there for different reasons than what’s in your brain so those are 2 different conversations however we do know that the gut and the brain have a connection through the Vagus nerve so if you are not making serotonin in the gut, it has been theorised that you could possibly have issues with depression because certain kinds of bacteria will cause your brain behaviour, behaviour issues, manic depression things like that so at the foundation of everything especially with fighting and athletics the gut is a huge thing and how many fighters do we know that have bubble guts all the time? If you go to a fight you see the stuff behind the curtain when they are trying to weigh in and they have been depleting themselves, the first thing they do is they don’t eat healthy food they go down to the bar and get some pasta or they get some donuts trying to replenish themselves and then they’ve got diarrhoea and green apple splatters. At the end of the day this is what we teach, everything has to do with stress when you are stressed your gut gets more permeable but when that happens you get immune system dysregulation, it causes more stress and more inflammation, you can’t recover and it causes a host of other issues.

Zoe:
Its everything, there’s nothing really that the gut doesn’t effect.

Luke:
Exactly so if you are not taking care of your gut and you are not really taking care of your health at all.

Brenton:
That leads on to my next question which would be a guess a growing interest in and something I’m seeing more and more, what do you think athletes need to be aware of or concerned with in regard to nutritional inflammation?

Luke:
You start looking at things like “if it fits your macros” start looking at their choices of foods and their quality. We teach something that we got from James Lavelle I mentored under him, basically garbage in and garbage out, everything you eat is either going to have a positive or negative consequence on your body and your mind so if they continue to eat things that are inflammatory nutritionally, it's going to cause an inflammation overload which is again caused issues with recovery and stress and things like that. Inflammation isn’t a bad thing you need it so you need stress and you need inflammation the problem is the majority of the population they are already so stressed out so inflamed that they add in training on top of that and then it's dieting and possible nutritional deficiency because they are not eating enough and then you get unmitigated inflammation which gets out of control and then you start getting joint pain and you start getting permeable guts and things like that.

Brenton:
It’s a vicious cycle.

Mac:
It starts manifesting everywhere else.

Zoe:
That’s another thing I think it’s important about health is a lot of the symptoms that bad gut health causes majority of people wouldn’t link it to being a gut issue if that makes sense so like the symptoms that they are getting on their skin and their mood, their performance levels and that they can’t sleep properly, energy levels all that sort of stuff and you never think oh man I got to work on my gut, you think ok I got to fix my skin.

Mac:
That’s the last thing you think of.

Zoe:
Yeah right

Luke:
It’s funny though how historically we have always referred to things as a gut feeling and yet the science is now demonstrating that really important relationship to the brain.

Zoe:
Between that vagus nerve I have read some stuff that said that so obviously its bi-directional, the communication between your brain and your gut down your vagus nerve is from your gut to your brain or your brain to your gut. I think a lot of people are starting to say that their communication is more gut to brain than brain to gut which is really interesting.

Brenton:
Sugar or at least refined sugar is again something that is increasingly being linked to inflammation, so I was wondering what are your thoughts on that I mean among a host of other problematic issues personally I have and insatiable appetite for sweets and particularly what I consider in Australia’s delicacy which is TimTims, so if I am honest I do struggle with a bit of cognitive dissonance when it comes to sugar. I love sweets but deep down I know it’s probably not the best thing for my body so as I learn more about sugar and its role in inflammation I realise I probably need to moderate my intake so do you have anything that you can add on this topic that could perhaps insight a bit more fear in me and get me off sugar for good?

Luke:
Sugar really isn’t the problem right the problem when you look at carbohydrates and sugars is the people’s bodies. Again you have high levels of stress, stress will shut down insulin receptors and making you more insulin resistant which will cause hyperaemia. In somebody who has very low stress and is training and dieting and all that sugar shouldn’t be a problem. Obviously I’m not talking about banging out bags of lollies or like TimTims, when you look at this you are looking at things that have calories and sugar but have no actual nutrition so when you are eating a piece of fruit you have a lot of cofactors and vitamins and minerals in the fruit that actually help digest the fruit whereas when you are eating a TimTim you don’t have that. In a lot of cases they will enrich them with a lot of vitamins but if you were manufacturing TimTims would you put the best pharmaceutical vitamins and minerals in the TimTim or would you be buying the nastiest bulk shit you could get out of china? Which in a lot of cases these vitamins end up being anti vitamins they actually make you worse because you take folic acid for instance, folic acid is in everything it’s not something you typically find in nature, you find folate in nature so if you eat some spinach or kale or whatever you are finding folate which is very easy for the body to convert. When you look at folic acid in a lot of people they don’t have the capacity to convert it chemically so it can build up and cause some problems.

Zoe:
Also sugar can deplete the vitamins that you have especially magnesium is a big one where I think it takes like 52 or 56 molecules of magnesium to process 1 molecule of sugar so with that lifestyle not only are we not getting enough, our diet and lifestyle is also depleting what we do have so it’s like a double whammy but with regards to the craving of sugar like I said I think you need to get to the root causes of why you are craving it. There could be so many different reasons as to why people are having this insatiable appetite for sugar, what is causing you to feel like you need it or want it so bad because I’m the same. I have the biggest sweet tooth, I have been eating sweets my whole life whereas Luke is a fat guy he likes fat and there’s different reasons as to why we like that.

Luke:
If we go back to our talk on serotonin if you look at how tryptophan crosses into the brain barrier, you need insulin basically to remove large neutral amino acids that are competing with it across the blood brain barrier so when we eat sugar or we eat carbohydrates and we increase insulin that allows tryptophan to pass over which then it can be converted into 5 hydroxytryptophan and then into 5 hydroxytryptamine or serotonin and then it can be turned into melatonin so a lot of the times when people are craving that in a lot of cases you find that craving and you find depression and then you also find things like night eating syndrome where maybe you don’t eat that much during the day but after 6 or 7 o’ clock you become like the cookie monster and you will eat anything that’s not nailed down especially sugar and in that case adding something like a little bit of 5 HTP with a little B6 is a really good strategy because it will cut your carb cravings down and it will allow you to make more serotonin and more melatonin so you will actually sleep better.

Zoe:
But you also need to be careful about giving 5HTP that’s on and antidepressant or an SSRI.

Brenton:
Is there a certain time when that functions better when taking 5HTP with B6?

Luke:
It depends because some people need more than others and what we find is that if you have a too large dose of it, it can have the opposite effect so we will typically tell people a daily dose of around 25-200mg 5HTP. Almost every time I had anybody take the big dose they actually get insomnia and irritable so if we are going to give them a lot we always start with the lowest effective dose so we start with 25mg maybe do that at dinner see how you feel if it’s not working maybe add a 25mg to lunch or 1 big 50mg. you increase the dose until you get a positive result and then you stop there and if you ever get a negative result you bring the dose back down. This is a huge subject with all this type of stuff especially with beginners they take a seminar and they learn about a couple of new transmitters and they go out like damn neuro scientists, none of them know what the fuck they are talking about. There’s some safe things you can do but people using like the “braverman” test which is subjective shit its the worst thing you could possibly take and tell somebody what neurotransmitters is or dominant in what they are deficient in right? It’s a very popular test for people to take but it's super subjective if we were all hanging out in the strip club and we railed off some crystal meth off some hooker’s ass we will all be dopamine dominant right? But if we go to Baskins and Robbins and we ate a litre of ice cream we would all be serotonin dominant so it’s all very subjective.

Steven:
Mac recently wrote an article about “minimum effective dose”, in that article he makes reference to least mode which is one of your concepts, so this is a great opportunity to hear it from the horse’s mouth so to speak. What the hell is least mode and how can that apply to fight athletes?

Luke:
Its human nature and for me being an American, it's the American way more is better, big is better blah blah blah and what we have to realise is that not everybody needs to be beasted in the gym, the strength and conditioning industry is all alpha this I’m so alpha bullshit chest thumping stuff and people thrive off crippling their athletes and crippling their general population clients. What we need to realise is not everybody needs to do 30 sets of workout in a lot of people 8-10 sets can be a lot of training so we have to be able to measure things so we can determine if it’s an appropriate amount of training for them because I think it was Lee Haney who said “stimulate don’t annihilate” and again if you are just annihilating people you have a very poor understanding of physiology and how stuff works.

Zoe:
I also think with training we are purposely raising our sympathetic nervous systems so we are purposely putting ourselves and elevating our fight or flight element of our autonomic nervous system. What you need to do to be balanced and to be getting results and to be healthy and all that other stuff you need to be balanced within your parasympathetic nervous system. If nobody is doing anything to actively raise that parasympathetic nervous system they are always just trying to bring down the SNS without actually focusing on your PNS so that’s what I think least mode is as well, balancing out that system with activity that purposely raises your PNS and bring you back into balance if that makes any sense?

Luke:
Another phrase that we coined is “beast mode your least mode” which means that if you are not going and getting massages, if you are not stretching or meditating, getting some type of aerobic base, taking some time off, getting enough sleep if you are not sleeping you have no reason to go in the gym and kill yourself. We train a ton if general population and we train a lot of PICP coaches, bio signature coaches, coaches in other parts in the strength conditioning and the first thing they do is go I can’t sleep what supplement should I take? Ok you are training 14 fucking hours a week you don’t need any pills what you need to do is train 3 or 4 hours a week and chill out and normally we get them to do that and they cut it down 3 or 4 hours maybe add in a bit of aerobics and stretching or get some fucking yoga in your life and bingo bango they start sleeping through the night and feel like a million bucks.

Zoe:
Another point there though is when you go to most personal trainers they address your nutrition and your exercise, very rarely do many trainers address anything outside of that such as your lifestyle or your mental health I mean supplements is now more included than ever before but there’s more to it than just exercise and nutrition. It's far more to the picture that contributes to whether the person is going to get results or not so it’s very rarely addressed so that’s a whole other side to least mode. There’s so many different meanings to it but they are all positive.

Steven:
That’s a really good point, Zoe. I’ll get to your question about the general state around the health and fitness industry in a second but I did want to say as someone who can occasionally be criticised as being inherently lazy, least mode really stood out to me because by doing less we are forcing ourselves to be more well-rounded in our approach so whether your trainer is forcing you to bust a gut or you are pushing it on yourself because you're trying to out train and bad diet or bad recovery and some of those are the components that you called out and I think that’s a really healthy approach and I’m 45 as I’ve gotten older and I continue to lift heavier I have got to be much more respectful for how I’m feeling and my own recovery of my central nervous system. Having a deload week for example would have been completely foreign to me 5 years ago and today I would say that even that sort of simple addition is what still keeps me in the gym today.

Luke:
I’m the same I turn 39 next weekend and I been lifting since I was 8 years old so I’m now getting to the point where I understand that more isn’t better.

Zoe:
We just want to feel good.

Luke:
I just want to feel amazing, I like being able to sleep well, I got shit tons of energy, my lifts are all going up, I’m making PRs in 5Ks so it’s all about balance so that’s what] we try to teach other coaches is that’s what least mode is about its balance.

Brenton:
There’s a lot of conflicting information out there, a lot of different gyms that I have trained at around the world you see some gyms train obsessively where they always brag about the fact that they train 2-3 times a day which is 6 hours total of just hard competition rounds, they are doing that 6 days a week and its almost this obsessive approach to if you are not training then the other guy on the other side of the world is training harder than you and this is that really obsessive mindset that instilled into a lot of students and it can be really hard for a student to draw the line and say is what I’m doing actually counterproductive or counter intuitive to my growth and productivity or compromise my performance as opposed to enable it and improve it.

Zoe:
I think to me that just screams that they don’t understand.

Luke:
They don’t, it's old school thinking you’re basically living a Rocky movie. You're running out in the snow with bare foot and chopping wood and then you’re going to the gym and it’s just…

Zoe:
They don’t know what’s going on when they are doing that because if they did, they would be taking some rest.

Luke:
You’re seeing a lot of new advanced stuff, you see people like Conor McGregor who evolves with every fight and gets a little better, a little faster, powerful, more agile, a little better movement and you see a lot of this these days where guys are starting to get hip with I need to have proper training and if I want to last a long time in this then I need to be taking time off and I can’t burn myself out.

Steven:
So what can you tell us about the state of the health and fitness industry these days?

Zoe:
Where do we start? I honestly think that the health and fitness industry promotes to the health and fitness industry. I think we are creating this really big divide between the people in the industry and the people who need to be in the industry. So like its very intimidating. We set these unrealistic expectations and the average joe who is overweight and has 3 kids and all that kind of stuff and they look at us and think that’s unattainable I’m not even going to bother trying it looks horrible I don’t want to do that so I honestly think we promote, its almost like a dick wagging contest honestly kind of like look at me I’m so hard-core, I’ve got a 6 pack, well I’ve got an 8 pack.

Luke:
What do you call it? Its 2 dicks.

Zoe:
Yeah it’s kind of like you had 2 dicks, the guys would say well I’ve got a dick and the other guys say I’ve got 2 dicks you know? I honestly think it’s gotten to that point where we aren’t making it comfortable for people who need us to approach us if that makes sense.

Mac:
In a way those people are being alienated by what’s going on.

Zoe:
We put so much bullshit out there, not many people are not real they are not all 100% of the time. Too many people think they are 100% on or your 100% off its ok to do a little bit of it and ease into it to build some habits and do what you can do. You don’t have to go bed on Sunday night and wake up Monday morning and completely change everything in your life. It really winds we up.

Luke:
You also have a lot of people coming out teaching course that they have absolutely no reason to be teaching anything because they are not teachers and they’re ripping off other people's work and I see it all the time. They are teaching things that are not applicable, they are repacking PICP stuff and saying you can use this for personal training it’s not a personal training course it’s a high performance training course that stuff doesn’t really work for the general population and we started doing the Muscle Nerds courses because we wanted to teach a good foundational material, teach stress response, teach people the truth about insulin. Insulin doesn’t make you fat, your management of carbohydrates and your stress levels are what’s making you fat its what’s making you sick and causing you all the issues and we are trying to teach very basic stuff in a good way because what I found is you have a lot of trainers talking out of their pay grade and taking course you shouldn’t be taking. There are course that are too far advanced for what they know.

Zoe:
They don’t even have the basics right.

Luke:
They don’t even have the basics, they go and do a hypertrophy workshop that teaches all of these hard-core advanced programmes and they can’t write a basic workout.

Zoe:
We teach knowledge not systems if that make sense. I think that every single coach that has come to any of our courses is an amazing coach and I think the reason we are attracting people that genuinely want to learn and understand and like Luke said a turnkey system where you come and you slot all your clients into this step A, step B, step C but we are teaching knowledge so that people can actually understand and be critical thinkers not just a none thinking system where they can just make a bucket load of money from it because of that we are attracting awesome people.

Luke:
The thing is everybody is so biochemically different and physiologically different you can’t put them all in a system that’s why you have 25-30% of people getting really awesome results and then the rest of your clients aren’t. I had someone ask me the other day you have all these companies that show hundreds of before and afters how are they having such success? If you look at all these different companies they all have like 75 trainers and all those trainers train like 15 people at a time and you think about these companies being around for a long time, they are only showing you the success they are not showing you the thousands of people that they didn’t do fuck all for and it’s just like Instagram and Facebook you see all the highlights of people’s lives and you don’t see any time that they are completely fucked because some people put their drama on but most people don’t so if you were to look at everybody’s lives you would think that they were having this rainbow skittle life and that’s not the case. It’s a lot of smoke and mirrors in the industry where you have trainers showing like 15-20 really good before and afters but they are not telling you they didn’t do fuck all for the other 200 that aren’t on any drugs or like real normal people.

Steven:
So you end up propagating that social media jealousy where people feel like other people’s lives are a highlight reel, everything is the best it ever was.

Luke:
You think they are way more successful than they are, when we have a class and we show before and after I don’t show any of our competitive power lifters or we don’t show any of our competitive physique athletes.

Zoe:
Or our genetically gifted ones.

Luke:
We don’t show any of our clients that could possibly be on performance enhancing drugs, we only show normal people somebody that could be your neighbour because that’s what really matters in teaching general population training you have to show people this is what’s realistic and 4 weeks, 12 weeks to a year not this candy coated shit you see on Instagram.

Zoe:
Trying to understand how this industry got to this point, it’s really just marketing to people’s desires to wanting instant gratification and the easiest way there but also the mark of a good trainer used to get good transformations and then the mark of a good trainer is how to get them fast so people don’t want to work hard and they don’t want to wait for it so of course you are going to start advertising to that. Of course you’re going to say ok here’s a 10-day challenge and I promise you results, it’s like come on…

Steven:
Like 7-minute abs.

Zoe:
It’s gotten to that point because we are actually marketing to people’s laziness I suppose.

Luke:
You are throwing to people who are too stressed out to be thrown into an 8-week challenge or 10-day challenge or whatever that they need to be prepared to do that then you fuck them up and then we have to iron out the problems because you have gotten so depleted and so fucked up because of hard-core dieting and shit tons of anaerobic training and not balancing that out and now people's metabolisms are screwed and we have to teach and fix them.

Zoe:
We are not completely against the time framed transformations that are out there but I do think the danger in that is you are putting an in-depth...

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *